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 Group admin 
If you have any ideas or suggestions for the group, or the latest issue of MOCpages News, let me know here!
Permalink
| March 14, 2017, 10:15 pm
 Group admin 
Not sure if this is the kinda thing you'd post,but put this in the "ads Colum" :P (if you want)

James Douglas new LOM season- " Prolouge Of Rouges" Is coming out soon, with decent Mocs and great stories (typo free!) Watch this space.

Advert- title may be changed if suggestions are sent to me.



I don't know if you write these things, but if you do, great! If you don't, all cry in a hole. Anyway, if you do do it, then feel free to re-phrase and edit it, but you don't have to do it, it is your paper, of course!
Permalink
| March 16, 2017, 11:56 am
How about a self promotion convo, where the people could interact more. And, they can advertise stuff that you might not have seen, or for future contests and such, or upcoming builds of theirs, that they know of but you don't... Such as my Roast Mutton is coming out soon (most likely today actually....) Thoughts?
Permalink
| March 16, 2017, 3:30 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Roanoke Handybuck
How about a self promotion convo, where the people could interact more. And, they can advertise stuff that you might not have seen, or for future contests and such, or upcoming builds of theirs, that they know of but you don't... Such as my Roast Mutton is coming out soon (most likely today actually....) Thoughts?

That sounds like a good idea, lots of groups have that, it would only make sense for a news group to have a place where people can submit news without having to ask for it to be added into the issues. Sounds good to me.
Permalink
| March 16, 2017, 3:41 pm
 Group admin 
Also, maybe we should get a group picture, because it would look a bit more professional if we had something other than (No Picture) as our icon, just IMO.
Permalink
| March 16, 2017, 3:44 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Marley Mac
Also, maybe we should get a group picture, because it would look a bit more professional if we had something other than (No Picture) as our icon, just IMO.


Yeah, that would be good. Marley, I'll invite you to the MOCpages news writers group!
Permalink
| March 16, 2017, 5:59 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Roanoke Handybuck
How about a self promotion convo, where the people could interact more. And, they can advertise stuff that you might not have seen, or for future contests and such, or upcoming builds of theirs, that they know of but you don't... Such as my Roast Mutton is coming out soon (most likely today actually....) Thoughts?


Yeah, let's talk about that with the other admins.

Permalink
| March 16, 2017, 6:01 pm
Quoting Jonathan Demers

Yeah, let's talk about that with the other admins.

K, sounds good... :D
Permalink
| March 16, 2017, 6:06 pm
Maybe we could have a set review category? that would be cool :D
Permalink
| March 25, 2017, 7:17 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Allthingsnerd (aragon)
Maybe we could have a set review category? that would be cool :D

Ooooooh! I would do that if I bought sets regularly :(
Permalink
| March 25, 2017, 7:33 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Allthingsnerd (aragon)
Maybe we could have a set review category? that would be cool :D


What King of review do you mean?

Mocs?
Sets?


Seems like an interesting idea, but could you elaborate? :)
Permalink
| March 25, 2017, 7:34 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Allthingsnerd (aragon)
Maybe we could have a set review category? that would be cool :D


Sorry for being a bit mean and pushy here, but could you change your username?

"Nerd" in your username sends every comment you post I to moderation, and the ones you reply to. I know another user who change his from "nerds for prez" to "Nirds for prez"

Just letting you k ow that the name moderation is a thing. :)
Permalink
| March 25, 2017, 7:37 am
Quoting James Douglas

Sorry for being a bit mean and pushy here, but could you change your username?

"Nerd" in your username sends every comment you post I to moderation, and the ones you reply to. I know another user who change his from "nerds for prez" to "Nirds for prez"

Just letting you k ow that the name moderation is a thing. :)

Don't worry I totally understand! I've changed my name to "Allthingsgeek" is that ok? Thanks :)

Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 6:37 am
Quoting James Douglas

What King of review do you mean?

Mocs?
Sets?


Seems like an interesting idea, but could you elaborate? :)

Probably sets as the only people that have the MOCs are the ones that built them...

Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 6:38 am
Quoting James Douglas

Sorry for being a bit mean and pushy here, but could you change your username?

"Nerd" in your username sends every comment you post I to moderation, and the ones you reply to. I know another user who change his from "nerds for prez" to "Nirds for prez"

Just letting you k ow that the name moderation is a thing. :)

Its fine don't worry! I've changed it from nerd to geek.. will that do? P.s sorry if another one of these comes through, because I sent one before changing my username and only remembered afterwards that it takes time ;)

Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 6:41 am
Quoting Uncategorizable Potato
Ooooooh! I would do that if I bought sets regularly :(

Yeah! luckily im a HUGE Lego Star Wars collector so im ok! :)

Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 6:42 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Allthingsgeek (aragon)
Its fine don't worry! I've changed it from nerd to geek.. will that do? P.s sorry if another one of these comes through, because I sent one before changing my username and only remembered afterwards that it takes time ;)


Sorry if I came across a bit rude there. :P

In fact, up until a few months ago mocpages did not sensor that word. But now they do. :P

I don't know why. I do not know anyone who finds that offensive.... I myself use it to describe myself. :P
Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 8:09 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Allthingsgeek (aragon)
Probably sets as the only people that have the MOCs are the ones that built them...


True. :P I didn't think that through, did I? :P
Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 8:10 am
 Group admin 
Quoting James Douglas
I don't know why. I do not know anyone who finds that offensive.... I myself use it to describe myself. :P

Same :P
Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 10:02 am
Let me make some things clear:

First off, for the record, I did not hack the group. I lack the talent or the vindictiveness to do so.

Second, I am not here to police you. This is your group to do with and run as you see fit.

Third, reading all the comments in here so far, there is an underlying truth that you all want and it is the exact same thing I want as well: A rejuvenated MOCpages. Zombie or otherwise as Deus mentioned.

The way that you would treat someone for asking a question, the manner of how you fear controversy (BTW if you feel that my Buddhist response of “If that is all you learned, then you learned nothing” to Mr. Stucky’s comment of simply ignoring controversy was “rude”, then you missed the point), and the rash, emotional responses without careful consideration have all been unimpressive. Your reaching out to make amends is a good start; but seeing as how you are batting a thousand with me so far, it would be fair to say that I am more than apprehensive about returning here.

So, I have only one suggestion for this boat as you venture forth with me on board:

Impress me.

Make this group worth the valuable time I give it to read. I am usually a silent person, but I will be heard when an unfair opinion is given. Give your own standings and words the weight they deserve. As I said before, dissent is healthy. If you cannot see that it will only strengthen your own view, then I have nothing to offer including a care. If you crave constructive criticism of your mocs, then it should be absolutely no different with your ideas, your viewpoints, or your place in the world. Better is the only goal, perfection is folly.

Impress me.

Show everyone here that you not only have the ability to write well, but also that you can listen better. Art is a conversation, and there is an art to it. If you want to inform the public of MOCpages about builders that deserve exposure, then you must let everyone know that you fear nothing, especially controversy, debate, and that which offends you. Disconnection is the only way to be impartial.

Impress me.

I am nothing more than a creator. With ideas. Some good, mostly not so. But as a creator, I want more. I want to learn. And I know for a fact that EVERYONE has something to offer. I am a small and humble audience, a curious culture of one, and I crave more. Make me want more.

Just impress me.

If you can agree to this, I will happily remain. If you find that what I have asked of you is an impossible task, then ban me again. I will not lose sleep over it, dwell on it, or figure out how to hack the group to be petty and childish. I will simply go about my business and not bother with MOCpages News again. But I see tremendous potential here and know that this can be something greater than the sum of its parts. I know you can too.

Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 1:13 pm
 Group admin 
Thank you for your comment Matt, and I once more apologise on behalf of the staff for your most unfortunate banning, and I thank you for being so mature about it.

Since then, by the way, we have had a cool, calm conversation with mr. Noir and McLegoBoy, and both parties will be a bit more understanding from now one, I trust.

And we will try to impress you, but weather we succeed or not is simply based on how high your standards are. :) we will take into account everything you have written, and use it to improve our group and mocpages as a whole.
Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 1:37 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting matt rowntRee
Let me make some things clear:

First off, for the record, I did not hack the group. I lack the talent or the vindictiveness to do so.

Second, I am not here to police you. This is your group to do with and run as you see fit.

Third, reading all the comments in here so far, there is an underlying truth that you all want and it is the exact same thing I want as well: A rejuvenated MOCpages. Zombie or otherwise as Deus mentioned.

The way that you would treat someone for asking a question, the manner of how you fear controversy (BTW if you feel that my Buddhist response of “If that is all you learned, then you learned nothing” to Mr. Stucky’s comment of simply ignoring controversy was “rude”, then you missed the point), and the rash, emotional responses without careful consideration have all been unimpressive. Your reaching out to make amends is a good start; but seeing as how you are batting a thousand with me so far, it would be fair to say that I am more than apprehensive about returning here.

So, I have only one suggestion for this boat as you venture forth with me on board:

Impress me.

Make this group worth the valuable time I give it to read. I am usually a silent person, but I will be heard when an unfair opinion is given. Give your own standings and words the weight they deserve. As I said before, dissent is healthy. If you cannot see that it will only strengthen your own view, then I have nothing to offer including a care. If you crave constructive criticism of your mocs, then it should be absolutely no different with your ideas, your viewpoints, or your place in the world. Better is the only goal, perfection is folly.

Impress me.

Show everyone here that you not only have the ability to write well, but also that you can listen better. Art is a conversation, and there is an art to it. If you want to inform the public of MOCpages about builders that deserve exposure, then you must let everyone know that you fear nothing, especially controversy, debate, and that which offends you. Disconnection is the only way to be impartial.

Impress me.

I am nothing more than a creator. With ideas. Some good, mostly not so. But as a creator, I want more. I want to learn. And I know for a fact that EVERYONE has something to offer. I am a small and humble audience, a curious culture of one, and I crave more. Make me want more.

Just impress me.

If you can agree to this, I will happily remain. If you find that what I have asked of you is an impossible task, then ban me again. I will not lose sleep over it, dwell on it, or figure out how to hack the group to be petty and childish. I will simply go about my business and not bother with MOCpages News again. But I see tremendous potential here and know that this can be something greater than the sum of its parts. I know you can too.


Thank you for this sir, I totally agree with you. I do hope that all the staff here can impress you and others. We will do our best. Thank you for staying with the group. ~ Jonathan


Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 1:57 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Allthingsnerd (aragon)
Maybe we could have a set review category? that would be cool :D


Sorry that I'm just responding to this now...but yes, I would like to have a set review in each ish.
Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 2:04 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting matt rowntRee
Let me make some things clear:

First off, for the record, I did not hack the group. I lack the talent or the vindictiveness to do so.

Second, I am not here to police you. This is your group to do with and run as you see fit.

Third, reading all the comments in here so far, there is an underlying truth that you all want and it is the exact same thing I want as well: A rejuvenated MOCpages. Zombie or otherwise as Deus mentioned.

The way that you would treat someone for asking a question, the manner of how you fear controversy (BTW if you feel that my Buddhist response of “If that is all you learned, then you learned nothing” to Mr. Stucky’s comment of simply ignoring controversy was “rude”, then you missed the point), and the rash, emotional responses without careful consideration have all been unimpressive. Your reaching out to make amends is a good start; but seeing as how you are batting a thousand with me so far, it would be fair to say that I am more than apprehensive about returning here.

So, I have only one suggestion for this boat as you venture forth with me on board:

Impress me.

Make this group worth the valuable time I give it to read. I am usually a silent person, but I will be heard when an unfair opinion is given. Give your own standings and words the weight they deserve. As I said before, dissent is healthy. If you cannot see that it will only strengthen your own view, then I have nothing to offer including a care. If you crave constructive criticism of your mocs, then it should be absolutely no different with your ideas, your viewpoints, or your place in the world. Better is the only goal, perfection is folly.

Impress me.

Show everyone here that you not only have the ability to write well, but also that you can listen better. Art is a conversation, and there is an art to it. If you want to inform the public of MOCpages about builders that deserve exposure, then you must let everyone know that you fear nothing, especially controversy, debate, and that which offends you. Disconnection is the only way to be impartial.

Impress me.

I am nothing more than a creator. With ideas. Some good, mostly not so. But as a creator, I want more. I want to learn. And I know for a fact that EVERYONE has something to offer. I am a small and humble audience, a curious culture of one, and I crave more. Make me want more.

Just impress me.

If you can agree to this, I will happily remain. If you find that what I have asked of you is an impossible task, then ban me again. I will not lose sleep over it, dwell on it, or figure out how to hack the group to be petty and childish. I will simply go about my business and not bother with MOCpages News again. But I see tremendous potential here and know that this can be something greater than the sum of its parts. I know you can too.

Woah. That was really well written.

Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 2:13 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Uncategorizable Potato
Woah. That was really well written.

I second that
Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 3:04 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting matt rowntRee

*Applause roar* Well said man. Well said.
Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 3:28 pm
If someone has a really lengthy comment, you guys should edit out the parts that do not need to be directly responded to. If it really is the whole thing, then just leave a *snip* or nothing at all but the 4< Quoting [NAME] : --- : 4> part. (Or do what James did.) The same comment just took up four times as much space which means all the more scrolling. Is that not why the issue is locked in it's own topic? For tidiness?
Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 4:02 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting MCLegoboy !
If someone has a really lengthy comment, you guys should edit out the parts that do not need to be directly responded to.

Yeah, it takes up a lot of space.
Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 4:08 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting MCLegoboy !
If someone has a really lengthy comment, you guys should edit out the parts that do not need to be directly responded to. If it really is the whole thing, then just leave a *snip* or nothing at all but the 4< Quoting [NAME] : --- : 4> part. (Or do what James did.) The same comment just took up four times as much space which means all the more scrolling. Is that not why the issue is locked in it's own topic? For tidiness?

There, fixed my comment. =)
Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 4:20 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting MCLegoboy !
If someone has a really lengthy comment, you guys should edit out the parts that do not need to be directly responded to.



True, thanks for letting me know...I'm still figuring out html.


Permalink
| March 26, 2017, 9:43 pm
 Group admin 
So, I really love this group, and I'd love to help out here, if you have need for another staff member or something.

I understand if you don't need me. =D
Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 11:52 am
 Group admin 
Quoting matt rowntRee
Just impress me.

Ruh roh, now that I'm an editor we're doomed to fail! ;)
Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 4:11 pm
If you manage to get the group going well enough to become the central hub of MOCpages (big hopes up and my support), it can also be a good way to solve MOCpages' biggest problem; no new blood. By helping people to learn how to use the pages properly (uploading and similar), there could be ones who would actually be willing to join.

Help topics and active conversation will do the trick. Have to watch out to keep everything fresh, too.
Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 6:49 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Deus "Big D." Otiosus
If you manage to get the group going well enough to become the central hub of MOCpages (big hopes up and my support), it can also be a good way to solve MOCpages' biggest problem; no new blood. By helping people to learn how to use the pages properly (uploading and similar), there could be ones who would actually be willing to join.

Help topics and active conversation will do the trick. Have to watch out to keep everything fresh, too.

Sounds like a cool idea, if people are just starting out and haven't had any large enough problems to report them to MP Help they could look here. Not extremely like a newspaper but it would make sense.
Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 6:56 pm
Quoting Deus "Big D." Otiosus
If you manage to get the group going well enough to become the central hub of MOCpages (big hopes up and my support), it can also be a good way to solve MOCpages' biggest problem; no new blood. By helping people to learn how to use the pages properly (uploading and similar), there could be ones who would actually be willing to join.

Help topics and active conversation will do the trick. Have to watch out to keep everything fresh, too.

I completely agree. A hub for communication, hot topics and new/useful information would be an awesome way to improve the Pages.
Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 6:58 pm
This first, and greatest, problem is how to get hold of those of us who are active. A great number of builders are erratic in our presence (myself included), and there's no centralized way to contact those people who are posting, let alone those who are mostly in watch mode between posts. Word of mouth has helped some, but there are far more posting than we're seeing here. Even with the decline in posts, the last week has seen 24 pages of new submissions. How do you reach those folks? A lot of groups want to get big, but this one needs to be. It can't stumble at just 50 or 100 users, it needs to reach a thousand or more to really make the greatest impact on the site. No matter how helpful the news may be, it only succeeds if it reaches people.
Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 7:31 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting James Young
It can't stumble at just 50 or 100 users, it needs to reach a thousand or more to really make the greatest impact on the site.

Are there even 1000 active users?
Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 7:56 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Choco Taco
Are there even 1000 active users?

Ikr
Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 7:58 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Deus "Big D." Otiosus
If you manage to get the group going well enough to become the central hub of MOCpages (big hopes up and my support), it can also be a good way to solve MOCpages' biggest problem; no new blood. By helping people to learn how to use the pages properly (uploading and similar), there could be ones who would actually be willing to join.

Help topics and active conversation will do the trick. Have to watch out to keep everything fresh, too.


I see your point. Maybe a section in the paper for new folks would do the trick? I could put some helpful tips for uploading, joining groups, and such in each ish.

Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 8:29 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Daniel H.
So, I really love this group, and I'd love to help out here, if you have need for another staff member or something.

I understand if you don't need me. =D


Yeah, I think we're all set for staff right now. If you have an idea for a specific article that you'd like to write, let us know and we might have you come in as a guest writer.


Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 8:36 pm
There are many big issues plaguing MOCpages including the lack of new blood here. I don't want to start a rant session as I feel everyone is well aware of the basics. But a major issue I see linked to it is the lack of any desire to return here by established and very productive builders. Saying that Flickr is a better site is only partly correct. Quality wise it is; however, format wise MP is far superior especially with those of us that enjoy telling stories with our creations.

I feel it is vital to make the site more welcoming as I have attempted over the years to repair many problems through the "back door" and have failed (THAT would be a rant session worthy of its own group. Trust me.)

It is time for a group like this to be as inclusive as possible. THIS is the exact reason I asked my question about art last week. I do not wish to rehash the controversy, but it is an essential facet to the reason for the lack of new blood as Deus pointed out. It is also the reason for older and established builders fleeing in droves to flippantly regard MOCpages as a footnote only.

There is a definite "young viewer" vibe to this site and we can only abide by the filters. But making it more desirable for hard talking and hard drinking adults such as myself will help bring not only the old blood back but also new blood looking for guidance and insight (Scotch recommendations too if anyone's interested and of legal age. ;) )

Along with Deus, I will do everything I can to help make this a central hub for MOCpages. But keep in mind that this cannot happen if MOCpages News becomes another group of exclusivity catering only to the pages and builders the writers like. There are many out there that are "controversial". It is my heartfelt opinion that they need equal air time to show EVERYONE that there will be no favoritism and no hope for being seen or heard.

Time to be fearless. ;)
Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 9:49 pm
Good job getting Issue #3 out so quickly. I have a suggestion that would help with the physical appearance of the new releases: Set up a new account for MOCpages News and release the news as MOCs. If you do it that way, you'll have all of the power of HTML at your fingertips, including, most importantly, the ability to embed images. The group could then be used to handle administrative activities, including fielding submissions for upcoming issues.

Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 10:35 pm
Quoting matt rowntRee
Along with Deus, I will do everything I can to help make this a central hub for MOCpages. But keep in mind that this cannot happen if MOCpages News becomes another group of exclusivity catering only to the pages and builders the writers like. There are many out there that are "controversial". It is my heartfelt opinion that they need equal air time to show EVERYONE that there will be no favoritism and no hope for being seen or heard.


I am inclined to agree with Matt on this point. It is imperative to keep from being cliquish and making sure that all MOC'ers are well represented. I was over the other day on one of my favorites and he's got a beautiful classic castle that is being more or less ignored. The object is to highlight all kinds of quality, not just the genres or themes we personally like. That includes controversial, or as I prefer to think of it: the avant-garde. There are some brilliant pieces which get almost no viewing, and it's a complete shame.

(MOC referenced: http://www.moc-pages.com/moc.php/437613)
Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 11:08 pm
Quoting Choco Taco
Are there even 1000 active users?


That depends, I suppose, on how you calculate it. Active in the last year? I think there are. Active in the last month? Certainly not. But there are a lot of users that come and go sporadically particularly among the AFOLs who tend to have jobs, kids, etc. that get in the way of the hobby.
Permalink
| March 27, 2017, 11:11 pm
Quoting Bricks Noir
Good job getting Issue #3 out so quickly. I have a suggestion that would help with the physical appearance of the new releases: Set up a new account for MOCpages News and release the news as MOCs. If you do it that way, you'll have all of the power of HTML at your fingertips, including, most importantly, the ability to embed images. The group could then be used to handle administrative activities, including fielding submissions for upcoming issues.

I had the very same thought, but wasn't sure how to bring it up. If someone could be dedicated to producing a final post each week, a MOC on one account would be a fantastic option.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 3:12 am
 Group admin 
an Account COULD be a good idea, and a few trusted staff running it would
Work well.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 3:16 am
Quoting James Young
I am inclined to agree with Matt on this point. It is imperative to keep from being cliquish and making sure that all MOC'ers are well represented. I was over the other day on one of my favorites and he's got a beautiful classic castle that is being more or less ignored. The object is to highlight all kinds of quality, not just the genres or themes we personally like. That includes controversial, or as I prefer to think of it: the avant-garde. There are some brilliant pieces which get almost no viewing, and it's a complete shame.

(MOC referenced: http://www.moc-pages.com/moc.php/437613)

Isn't that why there is a submissions topic for stuff like MOCs of the Week?
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 6:19 am
To add to the idea of someone making an account dedicated to this and posting MOCs. I would also like to remind that you guys should definitely make sure you have at least one original image that includes LEGO in some capacity. We don't want people to submit it to MOCpages Help as being a non-MOC because there are no original images, just copies of other people's stuff (possibly with or without their permission). And even if it's just the icon we have here, remember to edit that with Issue # on the actual image.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 6:24 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Bricks Noir

That could work, it would make the issues look more "snazzy" (please excuse my vocabulary) and easier to look at because of pictures. We'll add that to the metaphorical ideas folder. Thanks for the suggestion.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 8:12 am
 Group admin 
Quoting MCLegoboy !
Isn't that why there is a submissions topic for stuff like MOCs of the Week?


Yes, anyone can put what they think should be the MOC of the week in that thread, but the staff ends up picking the top 5. I just don't think it would work to feature everyone's favorite MOCs, because with 70 members now, that would just be too much.

Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 9:12 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Bricks Noir
Good job getting Issue #3 out so quickly. I have a suggestion that would help with the physical appearance of the new releases: Set up a new account for MOCpages News and release the news as MOCs. If you do it that way, you'll have all of the power of HTML at your fingertips, including, most importantly, the ability to embed images. The group could then be used to handle administrative activities, including fielding submissions for upcoming issues.


That's true Bricks, we'll definitely consider that. This group is still pretty new, and we're still figuring out lots of stuff.

Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 9:14 am
Quoting matt rowntRee
There are many big issues plaguing MOCpages including the lack of new blood here. I don't want to start a rant session as I feel everyone is well aware of the basics. But a major issue I see linked to it is the lack of any desire to return here by established and very productive builders. Saying that Flickr is a better site is only partly correct. Quality wise it is; however, format wise MP is far superior especially with those of us that enjoy telling stories with our creations.

Although I don't make much use of this storytelling capability myself (perhaps I should figure out a way), I see it as the key, and perhaps only, advantage that MOCpages has over Flickr, and it is a big one. If Flickr were ever to figure out a way to incorporate functionality like that, it truly might be the death knell for MOCpages. Fortunately (for MOCpages), given the way that Flickr has been going lately (spending tons of effort trying to cater to mobile users, while leaving traditional browser-based users twisting in the wind), that change is unlikely anytime in the near future.

Perhaps leveraging that storytelling/image aggregation capability is something that might make a good article or two for MOCpages News, i.e. tips for creating a spiffy-looking MOC or home page, including things like basic HTML, instructions for embedding a high quality image or video, and instructions for creating a a good main image/thumbnail (within the technical limitations of MOCpages). I have a feeling that there are a number of good creations out there that get passed over because of uninspiring thumbnail images.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 9:21 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Bricks Noir

Perhaps leveraging that storytelling/image aggregation capability is something that might make a good article or two for MOCpages News, i.e. tips for creating a spiffy-looking MOC or home page, including things like basic HTML, instructions for embedding a high quality image or video, and instructions for creating a good main image/thumbnail (within the technical limitations of MOCpages). I have a feeling that there are a number of good creations out there that get passed over because of uninspiring thumbnail images.


So basically an article for newbies, with some helpful tips on posting creations, html, and such. I've been thinking of doing something like that too. I'll discuss it with the other staff.


Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 11:06 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Bricks Noir
Although I don't make much use of this storytelling capability myself (perhaps I should figure out a way), I see it as the key, and perhaps only, advantage that MOCpages has over Flickr, and it is a big one. If Flickr were ever to figure out a way to incorporate functionality like that, it truly might be the death knell for MOCpages. Fortunately (for MOCpages), given the way that Flickr has been going lately (spending tons of effort trying to cater to mobile users, while leaving traditional browser-based users twisting in the wind), that change is unlikely anytime in the near future.

Perhaps leveraging that storytelling/image aggregation capability is something that might make a good article or two for MOCpages News, i.e. tips for creating a spiffy-looking MOC or home page, including things like basic HTML, instructions for embedding a high quality image or video, and instructions for creating a a good main image/thumbnail (within the technical limitations of MOCpages). I have a feeling that there are a number of good creations out there that get passed over because of uninspiring thumbnail images.


Agreed with you guys and the other staff, this is a great idea, there's some oddball functionality with MOC pages that would be easy to explain in a quick post or two and greatly help newbies.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 2:31 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting James Young
This first, and greatest, problem is how to get hold of those of us who are active. A great number of builders are erratic in our presence (myself included), and there's no centralized way to contact those people who are posting, let alone those who are mostly in watch mode between posts. Word of mouth has helped some, but there are far more posting than we're seeing here. Even with the decline in posts, the last week has seen 24 pages of new submissions. How do you reach those folks? A lot of groups want to get big, but this one needs to be. It can't stumble at just 50 or 100 users, it needs to reach a thousand or more to really make the greatest impact on the site. No matter how helpful the news may be, it only succeeds if it reaches people.

Yes! This is actually another great reason to consider the idea of the MOC Pages account and posting each "issue" as a MOC. I'm sure we can find a good way to feature a new build with each newspaper between all the staff members to get around any MOC pages issues. Another thing I like about it is that if everyone faves the new Moc pages account, they get notifications each time we make a new issue or other "moc". That's the fastest and best way to catch my attention - via an email, and I assume the same for many others.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 2:34 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting matt rowntRee

I think this is awesome man, really good to hear you're behind this. I for one really like MOC pages as it's where I first posted lego creations when I didn't know what else to do with my picures, and it's where my Lego "get out of the dark ages" occurred. Plus I've had a great experience interacting with the active builders. As for inclusiveness and appeal of MOCpages News specifically, I agree that we don't want people to feel this is only an interesting group (or account if we go that way) for kids, and just like newspapers have their various sections, as we mature this concept I suspect we'll start to carve out some good ways to appeal to the different audiences. There can be columns written by adults for adults, and of course MOCs can be featured that aren't for young people, though we have to keep in mind this group was started by young people and they're the lifeblood of the initiative so I'm sure we can strike a good respectful balance and keep everyone happy. With helpful suggestions and input by people like you guys who become invested in seeing this work, I know we can do it, even if it takes much iteration.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 2:44 pm
Quoting Doug Hughes
...if everyone faves the new Moc pages account, they get notifications each time we make a new issue or other "moc". That's the fastest and best way to catch my attention - via an email, and I assume the same for many others.

I for one don't have email notifications turned on, and I don't check my activity feed much on MOCpages anymore. So if the admins and mods could still put a link to a MOC in this group, that would be very helpful. Plus of course this group could still be used to discuss the issue.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 3:09 pm
Quoting Bricks Noir
Good job getting Issue #3 out so quickly. I have a suggestion that would help with the physical appearance of the new releases: Set up a new account for MOCpages News and release the news as MOCs. If you do it that way, you'll have all of the power of HTML at your fingertips, including, most importantly, the ability to embed images. The group could then be used to handle administrative activities, including fielding submissions for upcoming issues.

Alternatively, you could just edit the group description for each new issue. That way, you could use HTML and wouldn't have to create a new account.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 3:15 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting VAkkron ™
I for one don't have email notifications turned on, and I don't check my activity feed much on MOCpages anymore. So if the admins and mods could still put a link to a MOC in this group, that would be very helpful. Plus of course this group could still be used to discuss the issue.

Yeah great call man, we'd link it for sure if we had both the group here and a separate account for posts. Still seeing Classical's also intriguing idea... nothing has been decided yet!
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 3:18 pm
Quoting Classical Bricks
Alternatively, you could just edit the group description for each new issue. That way, you could use HTML and wouldn't have to create a new account.

True, but then how would you archive older editions? I don't think you would want to just continue to add on to the existing editions. That would get unmanageable in a hurry.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 3:20 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Bricks Noir
True, but then how would you archive older editions? I don't think you would want to just continue to add on to the existing editions. That would get unmanageable in a hurry.

Right. I think making another account, and posting each issue as a creation is a darn good idea.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 3:23 pm
Quoting Bricks Noir
True, but then how would you archive older editions? I don't think you would want to just continue to add on to the existing editions. That would get unmanageable in a hurry.

One of the admins could have a google doc where all the old issues are kept. The issues could also be announced in the comments.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 3:25 pm
Quoting Classical Bricks
One of the admins could have a google doc where all the old issues are kept. The issues could also be announced in the comments.

That could work, as long as everyone could get access to the Google doc (people will, from time to time, want to go back to read an older issue, especially if it contains any "how to" information). It would probably be best to find a solution that keeps everything on MOCpages (but given MOCpages' instability, backing up the content somewhere else is always a good idea).
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 3:30 pm
Quoting Bricks Noir
That could work, as long as everyone could get access to the Google doc (people will, from time to time, want to go back to read an older issue, especially if it contains any "how to" information). It would probably be best to find a solution that keeps everything on MOCpages (but given MOCpages' instability, backing up the content somewhere else is always a good idea).

Well, I was thinking that we could keep a text-only (No HTML) version of each issue in the comments if you want to read back. Also, turn on link viewing for the Google Docs so that anyone can see it.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 3:39 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Bricks Noir
(but given MOCpages' instability, backing up the content somewhere else is always a good idea).

Yeah
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 3:42 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Bricks Noir
That could work, as long as everyone could get access to the Google doc (people will, from time to time, want to go back to read an older issue, especially if it contains any "how to" information). It would probably be best to find a solution that keeps everything on MOCpages (but given MOCpages' instability, backing up the content somewhere else is always a good idea).

Interesting point on backing things up elsewhere. In general my leaning is towards keeping the main source all here on MOC pages, but as a backup I'd consider other things. Just my opinion anyway. Also, back to the idea of a new MP account, one neat feature of that would be we can group issues or other types of special articles using the folders system. I.e. if there's a series of articles that are how to's we can lump those MOCs in a folder so they're even easier to find. All the issues would be kept in a folder as well. That dips into the question though of what fits in an issue, say if you have a how to, would you add it as an article in the "issue" MOC, or have a brief description in the MOC and point to a separate how to MOC. Perhaps the latter.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 3:51 pm
Quoting Doug Hughes
Also, back to the idea of a new MP account, one neat feature of that would be we can group issues or other types of special articles using the folders system.

I was thinking that. It would be a really handy archive, and a good place to point people to who want to reread a certain issue or understand how to do use a certain technique, etc.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 4:02 pm
I wanted to mention that many groups on MOCpages already exist for getting various types of help. El Barto ran a Photoshop group for a while. There was a HTML and CSS group for getting the most out of MOCpages. Golly, there are even a few debate groups, LOL. I think that this group should consider inviting some of those group's members as guest writers, either to promote and revive their group, or to give some handy how-tos in this group's news issues.

I can try to dig up all those group links if needed. :)
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 4:05 pm
 Group admin 
Okay, just going to put my opinion on the new news member vs. the group description conversation. I think we should create a new account, as that would keep everything on MP and allow for more options to create a more professional and "cool" looking issue.
Edit: Having a backup outside of MP would be nice also, just in case something happens to mocpages and all the files are lost.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 4:05 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting VAkkron ™

That would also be a good idea, it'd be nice to get a professional view on tips like that. I'm also going to look up that HTML group now. :D
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 4:11 pm
 Group admin 
Another plus to having a separate account for the issues, is: People who are not apart of this group could view the issues. Thus, we'd be catering to the whole of MOCpages, rather than the 5% that are apart of this group. Also, that'd bring a lot more people to this group itself. Overall, I think making a new account for posting issues is the best way to go. But that's just my opinion.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 5:04 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Daniel H.
Another plus to having a separate account for the issues, is: People who are not apart of this group could view the issues. Thus, we'd be catering to the whole of MOCpages, rather than the 5% that are apart of this group. Also, that'd bring a lot more people to this group itself. Overall, I think making a new account for posting issues is the best way to go. But that's just my opinion.

Yes, that does make sense, it would also allow for us to advertise out group without really advertising. Another reason why I think we should go this way.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 5:12 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Marley Mac
Yes, that does make sense, it would also allow for us to advertise out group without really advertising. Another reason why I think we should go this way.

Agreed!
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 5:41 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Marley Mac
Yes, that does make sense, it would also allow for us to advertise out group without really advertising. Another reason why I think we should go this way.

Yeah, I'm liking this idea.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 8:40 pm
Quoting Marley Mac
Yes, that does make sense, it would also allow for us to advertise out group without really advertising. Another reason why I think we should go this way.

I also agree. Spreading the word is a surefire way to improve the group's activity, and the Pages activity as a whole.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 9:03 pm
I'm not active much in MOCpages anymore but having a section like "blast from the past" would be cool, with an old creation each issue....
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 9:10 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Scotty Jones
I'm not active much in MOCpages anymore but having a section like "blast from the past" would be cool, with an old creation each issue....

Yeah, that could be cool. Though, there is already a section like that under the explore page.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 9:17 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Daniel H.
Yeah, that could be cool. Though, there is already a section like that under the explore page.

Yeah, with that already there, I don't see much use in doing it again here.
Permalink
| March 28, 2017, 9:32 pm
Quoting Choco Taco
Yeah, with that already there, I don't see much use in doing it again here.

Unless your featured project isn't random, but is actually an important MOC that had an impact on the hobby as a whole. Maybe you could get an old member to write that section.
Permalink
| March 29, 2017, 3:06 am
It might be noted that the blast from the past that MOCPages actually does is either the major highlight on the front page OR just the 5 years ago today function. The odds of people being featured in either is quite low. However, the downside of finding those things that never got the attention they deserved is likely to be a rather significant undertaking for whomever would be doing such a section.
Permalink
| March 29, 2017, 5:11 am
Quoting James Young
It might be noted that the blast from the past that MOCPages actually does is either the major highlight on the front page OR just the 5 years ago today function. The odds of people being featured in either is quite low. However, the downside of finding those things that never got the attention they deserved is likely to be a rather significant undertaking for whomever would be doing such a section.


Blast from the past doesn't need to be that difficult. Just search oldest first under a specific theme and pick the best example that shows up on the first or second page.

Vary what theme you search for so that it isn't always bionicles or castles or (ahem) Halo.

Might be a job best not left to the same person indefinitely as it is quite a subjective thing picking a "best of".

As with any publication you really need an editorial direction for such choices, a tick list so that anyone taking on the role has a clear guide to follow and isn't just making it up as they go.

Permalink
| March 29, 2017, 8:17 am
I'm quite intrigued by the idea of a featured creator of the month. Choosing a prolific or talented mocer and doing a feature or interview on their influences and styles, medium and method. To give the whole thing more credibility it might be a good idea to approach one of the admins for an interview? I'm sure for something positive Chris or Mark would be game.
Permalink
| March 29, 2017, 8:21 am
Quoting andros tempest

Blast from the past doesn't need to be that difficult. Just search oldest first under a specific theme and pick the best example that shows up on the first or second page.

[stuff deleted]


Another way to do it would be to look at all of the MOCs from the same week some fixed number of years ago. For instance, if you set the "gap" at 10 years, then for the April 1 issue, you could go back to the week of April 1, 2007, look at ALL of the MOCs from that week (probably around 100, I'm guessing, which doesn't seem too bad), and pick one or two of the best ones.
Permalink
| March 29, 2017, 9:11 am
Look at what this group is doing, bringing the Mocpages community together!
Permalink
| March 29, 2017, 9:50 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Chris .
Look at what this group is doing, bringing the Mocpages community together!


Yeah, it's great! :D
Permalink
| March 29, 2017, 9:52 am
 Group moderator 
Quoting Chris .
Look at what this group is doing, bringing the Mocpages community together!

Indeed. :D
Permalink
| March 29, 2017, 10:53 am
 Group admin 
Johnathon, if we go through with half of the suggestings. One thing is for SURE.

We NEED more staff!!!
Permalink
| March 29, 2017, 11:50 am
 Group admin 
Quoting James Douglas
Johnathon, if we go through with half of the suggestings. One thing is for SURE.

We NEED more staff!!!

Like I've said, I'm here to help. :)
Permalink
| March 29, 2017, 12:15 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Chris .
Look at what this group is doing, bringing the Mocpages community together!

YES. I love this group. <3
Permalink
| March 29, 2017, 12:16 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting andros tempest
I'm quite intrigued by the idea of a featured creator of the month. Choosing a prolific or talented mocer and doing a feature or interview on their influences and styles, medium and method. To give the whole thing more credibility it might be a good idea to approach one of the admins for an interview? I'm sure for something positive Chris or Mark would be game.

Hi Andros, by admin do you mean MOC pages admins? I for one think that having one of them do an interview would be fantastic if they're interested! I see on the help chat page the admins are Mark Kelso, Chris Phipson, Sean Kenney, and... you: Andros Tempest! Lucky for us Andros you've found this group! If the other News staff members are interested in pursuing this, what venue would you recommend for contacting the four of you with a formal request? Or would you be interested in pinging them for us? Let me know what you think.
Permalink
| March 29, 2017, 1:24 pm
 Group admin 
Hi all, we're looking at adding in a Convention Calendar so people can keep track of the conventions around the world and learn about new ones!

Here's a start of the list of conventions I know in my area and others I've heard about:

BrickCan: 4/20 - 4/23, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.

Brick Fiesta: 6/29 - 7/2, Austin, Texas USA

Bricks by the Bay: 8/3 - 8/6, San Francisco, CA. USA

BrickCon: 10/5 - 10/8, Seattle, WA USA

Can you guys help us populate this list and send me names/dates/links to websites? We'll start publishing next week I guess with whatever we have, and we'll keep updating each week with new ones people tell us about.
Permalink
| April 11, 2017, 4:14 pm
Quoting Doug Hughes
Hi all, we're looking at adding in a Convention Calendar so people can keep track of the conventions around the world and learn about new ones!

Here's a start of the list of conventions I know in my area and others I've heard about:

BrickCan: 4/20 - 4/23, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.

Brick Fiesta: 6/29 - 7/2, Austin, Texas USA

Bricks by the Bay: 8/3 - 8/6, San Francisco, CA. USA

BrickCon: 10/5 - 10/8, Seattle, WA USA

Can you guys help us populate this list and send me names/dates/links to websites? We'll start publishing next week I guess with whatever we have, and we'll keep updating each week with new ones people tell us about.


The only one I attend is:

BRICKFAIR -
NEW ENGLAND: Marlboro, Massachusetts - May 4 - 7, 2017
VIRGINIA: Chantilly, Virginia - August 2 - 6, 2017
NEW JERSEY: Edison, New Jersey - September 21 - 24, 2017
ALABAMA: Birmingham, Alabama - January 11 - 14, 2018
(http://www.brickfair.com/)

A good number of the BIG events can be found here: http://www.brickcalendar.com/about/

I know my LUG's Knoxville Chapter is involved with BRICK Universe, Knoxville, but I don't personally plan to attend. That's August 26th - 27th, 2017.
Permalink
| April 16, 2017, 1:33 am
I was thinking what if we highlighted a specific Lego piece in the issues I think that could be interesting. After all a moc is the pieces it is made of. But I can also see how the feature could be somewhat odd/out of place and may add unnecessary clutter to the paper so if you don't think that's a good idea I get it.
Permalink
| April 16, 2017, 6:38 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Captain Kenbo
I was thinking what if we highlighted a specific Lego piece in the issues I think that could be interesting. After all a moc is the pieces it is made of. But I can also see how the feature could be somewhat odd/out of place and may add unnecessary clutter to the paper so if you don't think that's a good idea I get it.


I shall discuss it with my staff freinds.....
Permalink
| April 16, 2017, 6:41 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting James Young

The only one I attend is:

BRICKFAIR -
NEW ENGLAND: Marlboro, Massachusetts - May 4 - 7, 2017
VIRGINIA: Chantilly, Virginia - August 2 - 6, 2017
NEW JERSEY: Edison, New Jersey - September 21 - 24, 2017
ALABAMA: Birmingham, Alabama - January 11 - 14, 2018
(http://www.brickfair.com/)

A good number of the BIG events can be found here: http://www.brickcalendar.com/about/

I know my LUG's Knoxville Chapter is involved with BRICK Universe, Knoxville, but I don't personally plan to attend. That's August 26th - 27th, 2017.

Thanks James, I'll add em to the list!
Permalink
| April 16, 2017, 9:02 pm
Quoting James Douglas

I shall discuss it with my staff freinds.....

I would say make that a challenge type piece. Highlight a piece and see what people make with it before the next issue and feature one or two MOCs from that, but how does one catalog that? The group's creations will be the issues. I don't think there should be another topic added because I feel this group already has enough topics as it is, and adding another might just be too much.

But yeah, the challenge idea would boost activity among members and highlight people that deserve more exposure. It just needs a way to be cataloged without getting in the way.
Permalink
| April 17, 2017, 7:53 am
 Group admin 
Quoting MCLegoboy !
I would say make that a challenge type piece. Highlight a piece and see what people make with it before the next issue and feature one or two MOCs from that, but how does one catalog that? The group's creations will be the issues. I don't think there should be another topic added because I feel this group already has enough topics as it is, and adding another might just be too much.

But yeah, the challenge idea would boost activity among members and highlight people that deserve more exposure. It just needs a way to be cataloged without getting in the way.

Out of curiosity, do others have interest in participating in an informal challenge like this? I think we'd keep it very simple, certainly not to the level of a "contest with prizes" especially not initially if we were to do it. I'd think it would be more of a bragging rights thing: "hey look my fun creation using this odd modified plate piece got highlighted in the paper this week!" Getting a measure of general interest will certainly help the staff discuss the idea internally.
Permalink
| April 17, 2017, 11:44 am
Quoting Doug Hughes
Out of curiosity, do others have interest in participating in an informal challenge like this? I think we'd keep it very simple, certainly not to the level of a "contest with prizes" especially not initially if we were to do it. I'd think it would be more of a bragging rights thing: "hey look my fun creation using this odd modified plate piece got highlighted in the paper this week!" Getting a measure of general interest will certainly help the staff discuss the idea internally.


I'm lukewarm to the idea.

For myself, I tend not to participate in contests much, and I've got enough ideas that I seldom need prompting for something new. I may or may not participate, we'll see.

As for my perspective on the group as a whole? I'm torn between the value of activity, and the value of not being a contest oriented forum.

Do as you will.
Permalink
| April 17, 2017, 12:07 pm
A challenge sounds interesting but I can see James Young's point that that's not really the purpose of the group.
Permalink
| April 17, 2017, 4:01 pm
I've never really participated here, so I don't know if this was suggested before, but, here goes: an index, I was looking through one of the issues, and I didn't know what it contained (probably cause I haven't really looked at any of them before) and had a hard time navigating because each part is fairly long. So I think it would be good to have an index with permalinks to the different sections.
Permalink
| April 18, 2017, 9:05 pm
Quoting Captain Kenbo
A challenge sounds interesting but I can see James Young's point that that's not really the purpose of the group.

I'm the one that put the spin on the piece highlight and even I'm the same. The driving force is more for exposure to newer users on MOCpages, but the group is not about building challenges.
Permalink
| April 19, 2017, 6:35 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Tucker Marley
I've never really participated here, so I don't know if this was suggested before, but, here goes: an index, I was looking through one of the issues, and I didn't know what it contained (probably cause I haven't really looked at any of them before) and had a hard time navigating because each part is fairly long. So I think it would be good to have an index with permalinks to the different se
ctions.


True, that would help. Hopefully the next issue will be a moc (we've been saying that for nearly a month now. :P, so we could try that. :)
Permalink
| April 19, 2017, 7:32 am
 Group admin 
I like the idea of a peice highlight, but perhaps the competition is too far.

Does everyone like the idea of a piece highlight?
Permalink
| April 19, 2017, 7:56 am
 Group admin 
Quoting James Douglas

True, that would help. Hopefully the next issue will be a moc (we've been saying that for nearly a month now. :P, so we could try that. :)

Another possible idea that we could do is maybe post all the past issues as creations, just so we can have them all in one place.
Permalink
| April 19, 2017, 8:04 am
Quoting Marley Mac
Another possible idea that we could do is maybe post all the past issues as creations, just so we can have them all in one place.

Making the issues creations would really help and it creates more possibilities; adding pictures, links, some fancy html etc.

Permalink
| April 19, 2017, 9:46 am
 Group admin 
Quoting Johan van der Pluijm
Making the issues creations would really help and it creates more possibilities; adding pictures, links, some fancy html etc.


Yeah. That's why we're doing it. :P
Permalink
| April 19, 2017, 10:29 am
Quoting James Douglas
I like the idea of a peice highlight, but perhaps the competition is too far.

Does everyone like the idea of a piece highlight?

Sounds pretty neat.
Permalink
| April 19, 2017, 12:07 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Sam K
Sounds pretty neat.


Indeed it does...
Permalink
| April 19, 2017, 12:08 pm
Here's a suggestion, a suggestions 2 thread.. or is it not long enough? Mocpages should have multiple pages rather than scrolling for eternity lol
Permalink
| April 19, 2017, 4:17 pm
 Group admin 
Quoting Captain Kenbo
Here's a suggestion, a suggestions 2 thread.. or is it not long enough? Mocpages should have multiple pages rather than scrolling for eternity lol


Sure, I'll get it up now :)

Permalink
| April 19, 2017, 4:20 pm
Group moderators have locked this conversation.
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